tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9203557.post8309489888917680373..comments2023-09-27T14:38:58.735+01:00Comments on Mark Little's WebLog: More from BillMark Littlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15072917010265365428noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9203557.post-75175028160040894882007-09-29T13:05:00.000+01:002007-09-29T13:05:00.000+01:00Yes, that's what I meant.Yes, that's what I meant.Mark Littlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15072917010265365428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9203557.post-50198367644046432342007-09-27T14:46:00.000+01:002007-09-27T14:46:00.000+01:00Mark, by "we have to agree what's in the XML" I'm ...Mark, by "we have to agree what's in the XML" I'm assuming you mean contextual data like security and tx?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9203557.post-55002674040827467202007-09-21T20:26:00.000+01:002007-09-21T20:26:00.000+01:00Stefano, I think tooling and governance is critica...Stefano, I think tooling and governance is critical in any distributed system. In SOA (or REST), where you don't control the whole infrastructure they are even more important. I'm going to be saying more about this in a separate blog entry around Thomas' donation soon, so stay tuned.Mark Littlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15072917010265365428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9203557.post-68440530939002451672007-09-21T13:01:00.000+01:002007-09-21T13:01:00.000+01:00Hi, Apart gopher protocol :), any opinions/news ab...Hi, <BR/><BR/>Apart gopher protocol :), any opinions/news about SOA tooling. As said I consider tooling much more important than new specs at this status.<BR/>I'm particular curious about Erl's donated code if you can talk about:<BR/>http://blogs.jboss.com/blog/mlittle/?permalink=Service_Modeler_Donation_from_Thomas_Erl.txtAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9203557.post-71664181597221527262007-09-21T11:47:00.000+01:002007-09-21T11:47:00.000+01:00Mark: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopher_%28proto...Mark: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopher_%28protocol%29<BR/><BR/>You can't live missing gopher protocol ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9203557.post-71236959645208706412007-09-21T11:35:00.000+01:002007-09-21T11:35:00.000+01:00Bill, if HTTP and XML were sufficient, then we'd h...Bill, if HTTP and XML were sufficient, then we'd have been doing interoperable heterogeneous business transactions involving arbitrary numbers of parties for years. We haven't. Just agreeing on them isn't sufficient: you need to agree on what's within the XML and make sure all of those named companies (at least) also agree.<BR/><BR/>Web Services use HTTP. Web Services use XML. Those were the two easy calls made early on ;-) Everything else has been agreement on representations. That's what I mean by "it's difficult".Mark Littlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15072917010265365428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9203557.post-81196355391293773662007-09-21T11:33:00.000+01:002007-09-21T11:33:00.000+01:00A gopher. Now there was a protocol I miss :-)A gopher. Now there was a protocol I miss :-)Mark Littlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15072917010265365428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9203557.post-42704643238443216912007-09-20T22:41:00.000+01:002007-09-20T22:41:00.000+01:00Sure it's complex, but when you have to do complex...<I>Sure it's complex, but when you have to do complex things the infrastructure becomes complex too, either explicitly or implicitly (hidden behind service endpoints).</I><BR/><BR/>Here is the point. The problem is that a lot of time ws-* (or "simple" soap) are used also with not so complex tasks, because they are standards.<BR/>It wouldn't be a problem if specs and their implementations would already mature, but it isn't. <BR/>I think WWW became a success, because it hid complexity of http since the beginning. Http was defined as protocol to support an idea, and immediately implemented in a browser that simplify a lot the life of end users compared to gopher or VERONICA. That was the success: simplify the life of the user.<BR/>At the moment WS-* doesn't simplify the life of end user, but it's a matter of implementations (as Mark said), not of standards.<BR/>Good implementations, and some kind of world wide mentoring is much more important IMHO at the moment than one more WS-* standard.<BR/>ROI of WS-* could become a problem because final user are risking to lost in the specifications woodAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9203557.post-10031934036321442632007-09-20T16:43:00.000+01:002007-09-20T16:43:00.000+01:00It never happened with CORBA. It isn't happening w...<I>It never happened with CORBA. It isn't happening with REST.</I><BR/><BR/>This is what I like about REST. You don't need to agree on a data format. The data format is negotiated (content-type, accept) or defined by the application (i.e thru an XSD).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9203557.post-53565745050565097672007-09-20T16:40:00.000+01:002007-09-20T16:40:00.000+01:00OK, so go and persuade Oracle, Amazon, Google, Ado...<I>OK, so go and persuade Oracle, Amazon, Google, Adobe, Microsoft, TIBCO, company ABC, company XYZ etc. to agree to this and maybe we can start talking about a new global standard for information interchange.</I><BR/><BR/>We already have one, its called HTTP and XML. For contextual stuff you have a point, for business apis? I don't agree.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com